How To Generate Online Traffic That Will Increase Your Cashflow | Cashflow Hacking Ep #28 Jason Stogsdill

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How To Generate Online Traffic That Will Increase Your Cashflow | Cashflow Hacking Ep #28 Jason Stogsdill

Jason Stogsdill, CEO and founder of joins us on the podcast to discuss how strategic media buying can increase both your online sales and traffic in a relatively short period of time. As a veteran in the ad and media industry, Jason has worked with numerous multimillion dollar clients who were looking to increase their online presence and brand authority in a relatively short period of time. Now, Jason joins us on the podcast to discuss the strategies that he believes work best for new entrepreneurs, and how you can increase your online sales quicker than you would have ever imagined previously.

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Podcast Transcript

Intro: 00:10

Welcome to the Cashflow Hacking Podcast. We’re on a mission to help people increase their cash flow. Well the steady paycheck of a nine to five job may provide you a sense of security. It will never bring you true financial freedom and abundance. We will teach you the tips, tricks, and strategies behind increasing your cash flow. We connect with the experts who have defied conventional finance wisdom, who now earn more than they ever once thought possible. For those of you that are not yet at your full potential are underemployed, or simply looking to grow their cash flow. Then this podcast is for you. Welcome to the Finance and markets Cashflow Hacking Podcast, and now to your host Casey Stubbs.

Casey Stubbs: 01:07

This is Casey Stubbs with the Cashflow Hacking Podcast, and today we’ve got Jason Stogsdil. Jason is a media buyer, which means that he buys traffic to help generate sales for his clients. Clients who are selling products online and so Jason, thanks for coming on the show today.

Jason Stogsdill: 01:23

Hey, thank you Casey. Glad to be here man.

Casey Stubbs: 01:26

So today we were really targeting people that are trying to make an extra source of revenue, cashflow, hacking. We talked to all kinds of different people and I’ve been following you on facebook and your strategies are really good. Your techniques are really good. I do some media buying myself because I run a couple trading businesses. So you know, I’m always trying to learn things about this but I’m just, I thought it would be really useful for our viewers because you know, people that are trying to make an extra source of revenue they’ve got, if they’re launching a new product online or they’re trying to sell something online, they’ve got to learn how to get traffic. And so that’s why I wanted you to bring you on today.

Jason Stogsdill: 02:03

Awesome man. I appreciate it. I’m glad. Glad to be here. Yeah, let’s, let’s talk traffic.

Casey Stubbs: 02:08

So let’s say somebody just starting out in the business, they get there, they have a product they want to sell and they are thinking about getting out in front of an audience. They want to sell stuff. It’s not just simple as simple as buying ads on Google and all of a sudden your sales are going to come in and you can retire rich. Right? There’s, there’s a lot more to it than that.

Jason Stogsdill: 02:31

Yeah. Maybe back in the past, you know, I bought my first, a new google ad words ad back in 2007 I think, and you know, the next day the phone started ringing and the, the clicks were very cheap, so some people got, you know, did really well with that, but over time it’s gotten way more competitive. So, you know, just throwing something out there and thinking you’re going to flip the switch on and watch your bank accounts a fill up those, that’s not really anymore. So, you know, you’ve got to be much more strategic about it these days and you know, the way you’re approaching your business and how you’re factoring in how paid media is gonna be a part of that.

Casey Stubbs: 03:11

Okay. So if you’re starting out and let’s say that you set a certain media budget, because obviously if you’re starting a business and you don’t have a budget for media, you’re already in a little bit of a problem. So you start out with a couple thousand dollars a month for media to test. What would be some good starting points? How would you recommend someone get started with that?

Jason Stogsdill: 03:36

Yeah. I think what you kind of said their taps into something that’s very important that we can go deeper on and it’s really the, like, if you’re going to have an online business, you want to build the media budget really into your business model because where I see a lot of people go wrong, we’ll give your viewers some terms here. A good one to start with his CPA (cost per acquisition). So how much am I spending in ads to actually acquire a customer? So, you know, these days they’ll say, you know, whatever product you may, you may be selling, you know, it may be that to run paid media, you know, you’re gonna pay way more than you expect to acquire a customer, even if you hire the best media buying pro. So really you gotta think about building that into your business model.

Jason Stogsdill: 04:24

And a lot of the business models or businesses I work with, you know, they are aiming for a break even acquisition. So let’s say, you know, you have a funnel where, you know, maybe you’re giving away a free book on the front end, free plus shipping offer and then you’ve got a couple of upsells and your average cart value is, let’s say $50, right? You find that out over time after, you know, running traffic to your funnel. So what the, you know, the most successful people in online marketing today, they are aiming to at least break even, meaning, you know, to sell that $50 product, I am spending $50 on paid media and to new people, that sounds kind of like well why would I do that? Like I’m just, I’m not making any money, you know, so, but we can, we can go deeper into that. I’ll see if you have any comments or questions to add to that.

Casey Stubbs: 05:19

Okay. That actually is a little mysterious to me because if you’re breaking even on your media spend, you’re obviously have other expenses in the business as well. So then I’m thinking net loss in the business and as a business owner, I know some businesses love make losing money. I’m not one of those guys. So as a business owner, I want to make a net profit. So if I am losing money or if I’m break even on ad spend, that means I’m losing money across the board.

Jason Stogsdill: 05:54

Well, yeah. So well, we’ll dig deeper into this and I’ll kind of have to qualify a bit in saying that I do have some clients that sell like really high end products and they’re generating leads to get people on the phone. So obviously they’re not, you know, breaking even on that ad spend. They may be selling a $10,000 product and it’s going to cost them x amount to get these people on the phone and then they’re going to close a certain percentage of people over the phone. But let’s, let’s talk about like a purely online driven business where, let’s think about that, what we call a front end funnel. So really what you’re trying to do on the front end is I’m really just build your base up with buyers and all the money is made on the back end. Let’s say you run that funnel, that’s your average cart value is $50 and you spent $50 to acquire a customer.

Jason Stogsdill: 06:49

So basically, let’s say you broke even on costs and everything, so you’ve got a new customer and you broke even, or really, sorry, I’ve got a got a frog in my throat here, but really where you’re making the money is on the back end sales so that, that front end funnel acquired you a buyer, added them to your base of customers. Now when you sell them something on the back end, it’s going to be pure profit, you know, especially if it’s, like a info based business, but once you have added that person to your email list that’s owned traffic so you’re not having to pay to acquire them. So the hardest thing to do in business is actually to acquire a new customer and that’s why we put all the emphasis on that. So and then we can kind of go further in distinguishing between a lead or a subscriber and a buyer. You know, you want to be building a list of buyers. So let’s say you’ve acquired that person at break even and then let’s say your next product up for sale, you know, coming over your email list is $500, right? You’re not having to pay to advertise to them again. So I’m really this whole thing about breaking even on the front end. It’s just a way to liquidate your advertising cost and gain that base of buyers and then sell them back end products.

Jason Stogsdill: 08:15

Okay. Now that makes a lot more sense, so thank you for clarifying. So what you’re saying is it’s a product sale, but it’s really what you’re really doing is you’re picking up a customer so you’re, you’re spending break even to get a new customer and that customer will then continually spend with you and a great actual way to put this into terms that people can understand was maybe a Walmart’s running ads and they, no one’s, I’ve never been to Walmart before, but I, they spend a thousand dollars and finally I go into the store and I start shopping at Walmart. Well, it’s going to take them a while before I actually spend a thousand dollars in their store. But if I keep shopping every week, I’m going to make the money. I’m going to spend a thousand dollars and they’re going to have a net profit on me. Something like that.

Jason Stogsdill: 09:05

Yeah. And that’s the hardest thing to overcome is just acquire and you in the beginning. And so if we’re talking about people starting an online business, this is what a lot of people wish they knew because you can, plan your business in a certain way, like I’ve known people that come up with products that, you know, are kind of low ticket products and they don’t really know, you know, what they’re really, what they’re business model is, what are they going to be selling next? And you know, like they haven’t taken all this into account. All they know is that they have a product and they want to sell it $and you know, they’re even thinking they want to make money off of that product, but maybe the cost of ads is really too high for that to, to be competitive. Like, you know, I’ve known people that say they come out with, you know, a $15, $20 product, they have no other products and they think they’re going to spend on ads and make that, you know, massive profit on the front end and it just doesn’t work out

Casey Stubbs: 10:02

Well. Then that seems like it makes the entry into the marketplace a little more difficult. Because you have to have something that people are going to buy multiple times where you’re going to have to have an entire product line rather than just making one flagship product to grow your business. It’s gonna be really tough to break in that way.

Jason Stogsdill:10:22

Yeah and there are some caveats, like some people are doing a high end webinars where, you know, they are, you know, selling a high ticket product and then the Webinar leads to like a phone call, so you know, those people can make money, but like the best way to scale up a business, the biggest direct response companies are like the model I’m telling you to acquire that base, then have other things to sell them. But you know, I know some people that on their email sequences, maybe they have some products, but clients I work with, they also on their email sequences, they have a lot of affiliate products. So let’s say you had your own, you know, funnel that would liquidate your ad costs and get you a buyer. And then your next follow up, like if you’re just getting started out and you haven’t developed all these products, maybe your next followup is a, an affiliate product, and you know, by the time you’ve got that person into your fold, they trust you.

Jason Stogsdill: 11:17

They’ve been acquired, they were proven buyer, you know, much different than just a subscriber, because the person’s actually proven they’re willing to spend money with you. So that’s a huge hurdle to overcome and then you’ve gained that trust, then you recommend them an affiliate product. So, you know, people are making money that way. There’s lots of ways and I’ve thought about this a lot because you know, you can burn a lot of money just trying to prove that your funnel works so you want to have ideas and place to be able to generate that revenue, whether it’s affiliate products, maybe you’re, you know, I know people who up lists that they’re going to sell advertisements on that list and you know, you work in finance and you know, that’s huge. Like companies out there that purely are, they’re acquiring traffic, maybe they’re selling something or just, you know, gathering the leads, adding to their list and then they’re selling advertisements on their email list, which, you know, they can do really well with that. So there’s different ways to monetize and those things can change over time as well.

Casey Stubbs: 12:21

Okay. Now if you’re, if somebody was getting ready to launch a product, it had a product, they had an immediate budget, what would be some of the steps that you would recommend that they take? Because I’ve already heard you say multiple products create a backend. Also sell ads or affiliate, which is like an ad. You’re recommending a product. Is there a specific strategy or business model that you think works the best for somebody that’s just getting started out? And that would be the lowest entry point?

Jason Stogsdill: 12:56

Yeah. You know, like the affiliate product thing could be good in that. Like in the long term I would say don’t rely on affiliate products, but you know, in the interim, I know how hard it is to build a product and you know, validate that people want it. So, you know, then then going in and creating more products like, in the beginning just to prove your model, you might simplify that like let’s say, you know, if you offered a front end product on your trading strategies that I could buy and let’s say I bought that for $100 and then let’s say, you know, you just started that business and you know, in the back of your mind, you’ve got to have multiple ways that you may want to consider generating revenue.

Jason Stogsdill: 13:46

You could say, well, maybe I sell a coaching program to this person that is a $2,000 and they get group coaching calls, something like that. So you can spin up a product pretty quickly that way because you’re giving them more access to you. So out of the buyers that you acquire, certain percentage of them are going to want to take that upsell. And then you can offer that on the email list. So that would be one quick way, I think, to quickly add a back end is just giving people more access to you and you can still keep it like one to many by a and scalable by like group coaching, call or however you want to structure it but then maybe have other backup methods to say, Hey, if this doesn’t play out the way I want, I’m still building a valuable list. Maybe I could hire a list broker and sell ads. Like a lot of the clients I work with that aren’t like, huge eight figure companies already. They want to have what I call our revenue safety nets, where if this doesn’t work out, this might work out because as you’re, as you’re building your buyer base, you’re still trying to prove things…but you’re still building a valuable asset that can be monetized in, in different ways.

Casey Stubbs: 15:05

Right. An email list has a lot of different ways to create revenue sources and like you said, list broker or affiliate and all that and that’s a great thing about, about an email list, a however you’ve been talking a lot about, about customer acquisition is do you think the best, and I know you do different, different techniques because I’ve seen some of the things you do, do you think the best technique is to focus on getting customers on the front end or to try to get email leads to get someone to give you their email address on the front end? What method is the best for growing your list?

Jason Stogsdill: 15:42

So I go both ways on this you know, we send a lot of traffic straight to sales, that ended up hitting the numbers that we want. But then sometimes, you know, other traffic channels are a little more challenging. So what I would simply recommend is, let’s say, you have a product that you want to sell, you can send people straight to that sales page and if that’s working, you’re just gaining buyers. And buyers are superior to subscribers, right? Even if you’re, let’s say you’re, I’m renting someone’s email list. That’s a list of buyers. People who are spending in that genre that’s way more valuable than a list of subscribers who’ve never bought anything. So really obtaining buyers is really the holy Grail, right? So that’s ultimately what you want. So we could say, you know, just focus on only getting buyers, right.

Jason Stogsdill: 16:37

But sometimes on traffic networks, it may not work out where you’re sending the traffic to strict to that sales page and your numbers are working out. So what you can simply do is have an optin before that before they get to your sales video, on the product you’re trying to sell them and make them opt in that way. Let’s say if I get 100 email subscribers there and let’s say 2 people that become email subscribers by that liquidate some of my ad cost, but then these other 98, these people are on my list. So then you have a chance, just through your back end email promotions to continue to sell them, you know, because if you never got those emails, you wouldn’t get to sell those people again. So you’re just getting more chances to sell that person

Casey Stubbs: 17:27

And what kind of things can someone do to actually create what you call an opt in like what can you actually do to capture that email address?

Jason Stogsdill: 17:38

Oh, as far as the, like actual software or like the incentive you’re giving out or…

Casey Stubbs: 17:44

Just what the technique would be to capture that email.

Jason Stogsdill: 17:51

Okay. you know, there’s different techniques, but let’s say you are, you’re ultimately focused on sales, but you also want to capture emails. So let’s say you have a video sales letter or some type of video that selling your product, but you’re also teaching them something in that video. So this is a common, a funnel that’s tried and true. So,you’re not only going to be selling them something like let’s say, for, let’s say you’ve got a new trading product and you’re going to teach, three tips to trade forex and they’re going to learn that in the video. So you’re educating them but as they’re progressing through the video, that’s where you’re also presenting, what it is that you’re going to sell so you can take an optin and put it in front of your sales video and you know, framed that opt in to say these are three forex trading tips and I’m not a trader myself, I just market trading company so I’m not going to speak too intelligently. I’m making up a product on the spot, but you know, that opt in will serve as while they they want to learn those three tips. You give them the three tips in the video, but that’s also your sales video. So that’s a very good funnel.

Casey Stubbs: 19:07

Okay. So you give them something that they would give you, your email for you deliver that. It’s an exchange of an email for training or information that they would want and with the purpose of then later continuing that relationship, communicating with them and attempting to create them into a buyer.

Jason Stogsdill: 19:27

Yeah and that would be all in the same video, right? So all in that same video. Now if you took a more of a lead gen approach, what you would be doing is give them out a lead magnet or something like that, like here’s your 3 forex tips to start making money as early as next week or whatever it may be. You give them a, you give them a pdf and then there’s no sale after that. That would be pure lead Gen, which sometimes, you know, we, we do this too because I’m on some traffic networks like facebook, like what you’re saying and your vsl or in your funnel, they may not, it may not be by their guidelines and they can shut your ad account down. That’s, that’s a common problem. So in that case, you know, you could be doing pure lead gen and then what you’re hoping to do is nurture them on your list and make the sale later.

Casey Stubbs: 20:19

Now, if I’m just getting started with, with media and I’ve got my product, I’m launching it out, what is probably the best channel that you would recommend me getting started with? Let’s say I had a really small budget, you know, $2,000 a month or something like that to get started. What would you recommend somebody get started with?

Jason Stogsdill: 20:41

Well, the big factor for me really is a compliance. You know this is a big deal. Compliance really will make me choose one network over the other. So, what advice I give me help one person but not the other. You commonly see people starting on Facebook, and that can be great but the products that work better overall in the long term or kind of vanilla products, I call them like if I’m selling, you know, shoes or something that’s probably the perfect Facebook product. But then a lot of people who were in say, like the Biz Opp space, when you start making certain claims, you might start doing really well with Facebook ads, but you’re running the danger of them reviewing your account and shutting you down. So it really depends on what market you’re in. Because let’s say you are promoting Bitcoin, like you can’t advertise on Facebook.

Casey Stubbs: 21:39

Well they just reversed that yesterday.

Jason Stogsdill: 21:41

Yeah, they reversed that. So that’s very weird. But it just goes like if you’re in this room…

Casey Stubbs: 21:46

But you can’t rely on it, you just can’t rely on it because who knows what they’re going to do next.

Jason Stogsdill: 21:51

Yeah. Yeah. So you know, this may be getting a little bit advanced, but I think people like if they’re looking at it clearly from the beginning and they understand the broader picture of traffic, I think it’s good for even a beginner to know because like most people think, a lot of times when they’re starting out, why I want something I can run on Facebook, right. And let’s say, like last year Crypto, people were doing really well and I’ve talked to a ton of people like this where they went out and they developed the product, they put all this work in, they started making money there. They’re making great money on, Facebook and Google and then they got shut down and they’re kind of sitting on top of a great product that was profitable, but they don’t really know what other ad networks to get on.

Jason Stogsdill: 22:37

So just realize that, I mean, there are hundreds of ad networks like there are people and ad networks that will happily take your money and run a crypto ads for you. So a tip I recently picked up is that, you know, they’re doing really well on because they allow crypto ads. So really the takeaway is, you could build an entire business model and if you’re only relying on Facebook, it’s kind of like they’re controlling everything, right? Like, you don’t want to be in a position where, hey, if you can’t run ads on Facebook, you’re out of business. You know, because I know plenty of people who are, I mean the customer flow stopped, you know, but I don’t mean to be bashing Facebook, but it’s just to say that, like on a social network or on Google, they are considering a lot their user experience.

Jason Stogsdill: 23:37

So you know, if they feel that if they let an advertiser promote and that sends them down a certain funnel that they consider not good or not a great product or they don’t like what you’re selling than that is hurting the overall Facebook experience because it’s a platform. People know they’re on Facebook. Whereas if, let’s say you were searching a website through google and you went on it and you saw a native ad by Taboola, a lot of people probably don’t notice it. You know what companies are serving these ads. They’re less concerned because they’re not really a platform that people are experiencing. They’re just serving an ad on a website. So, yeah, it can vary depending on what you’re in. And plenty of people do get started like an, you know, Biz Opp and finance stuff on Facebook, but as you start spending more money, you know, they will trigger like manual account reviews to say, Hey, this guy is spending, you know, $50,000 a month on ads, let’s see what’s he selling, what’s he doing? And I’ve heard of them even buying your product and really scrutinizing you and that’s because like you’re spending a significant amount of money and that can trigger a review. So, you know, it gets complicated.

Casey Stubbs: 24:56

It comes back to being a basic recommendation from their platform. And so I kind of understand that because their product is customer engagement and user friendy. They want their platform to be liked. So just to sum up that answer, it’s kind of unfortunate that you had to say that because it just made things a lot more difficult because now it sounds like I just can’t learn one thing. You’re telling me I have to learn everything.

Jason Stogsdill:25:25

Well, maybe not learn everything. Maybe you know, just like I would start with the product you want to sell, the copy, making a good funnel and there’s generally a way you can sell about anything these days where, let’s say, people that were having trouble in supplement songs. So, Google ad words or Facebook. The good news is that there’s plenty of options. There’s lots of online advertising options available. So, don’t let the ad networks dictate your business model. Like don’t make a business model around Facebook’s rules. You may just have to find a different channel, you know, keep your eyes open. And I share a lot of tips about this stuff because I literally see people sitting on top of gold mines that are dormant because they can’t advertise on Facebook and I can sort of flip the coin and say, I sound like I’m cautioning against Facebook, but you know, there are some products where that is the perfect platform.

Jason Stogsdill: 26:29

There may be other products where the very best traffic you’ll ever get is ad words. So one thing I’ve been saying a lot is I kind of look at traffic, like those Russian Matryoshka dolls where you open and then there’s like, it keeps getting smaller. So start with your core in determining what would be the best form of traffic and it can be different for every person. And like even some of my clients, they’re different traffic for them. So start with, that core that’s going to be your lowest hanging fruit, the easiest to convert traffic, the easiest network to run on, not having to worry about any compliance issues, get that converting. And then let’s say you’re running on Google ad words, generally there’s only a certain amount of search volume you can get.

Jason Stogsdill: 27:19

Then you kind of have to go out and say, well, how can I expand out? How can I grow my revenue? Your next best bet may be, running, like one of my clients there number one is google ad words. And then the number two source of leads is Facebook. You know, they’re building retargeting audiences. And custom audiences in Facebook, I can vouch that the ad words traffic for them is the very best because those people have the best buyer intent. I mean, they’re literally searching for it, right? So if you’re a salesperson at that company, guess which, leads you want on the phone, you know, the people that are searching for it and ready to buy. Whereas like their Facebook ads, it’s just a different mentality because the person wasn’t searching it out, but they saw it in the feed. It got their interest, they submitted their info. Maybe they struck up a conversation on Messenger. But there’s a difference between the customer who’s actively searching versus someone who’s attention you caught. So it’s a, it’s a lot to think about. But when you tap into that, you’ve come a long way already and kind of figuring out your traffic strategy.

Casey Stubbs: 28:26

So I, I still got a ton of different questions. Things that are just coming into my head. So I’m thinking about Google and I’m thinking about scaling and I’m starting to have some success. I’m spinning my ad budget, I’m getting a lot of good customers. How do I know how far I can go with one ad source and how do I know when I’ve tapped it out?

Jason Stogsdill: 28:50

Yeah. So in the ad networks, you’ll start to see first the things that sort of wear out. The first thing that will wear out is your creative, right? Can you see this on Facebook more than anything, like the creative starts to go stale. So when your stats, you’ll start to see your cost rise and that just means the creative has gone stale and then finally, the thing that can kind of go stale over time, this takes much longer is your offer can go stale, right? So it means you sort of hit max exposure there. So you just gotta kind of watch your watch the dashboards in your ad accounts. Now like Google ad words, you just hit a certain volume and maybe you’re raising your raising your budgets and they’re kind of tapping out on the amount that they can serve to that audience.

Jason Stogsdill: 29:45

So, you know, it would be nice if Google adwords could infinitely scale, but at any given time there’s only so many people like actively searching. So it’s just a matter of keep an eye on the dashboard for things like that. And on Facebook, you’ll notice that maybe your ad is, it’s a little different. Maybe your ad is starting to serve to the same people over and over and over. So you begin to get a feel of like you burned out that audience. So another piece of advice that I will give, meant for people just starting out, you kind of have an advantage in a way because you can, you know, pick your business model or pick how you’re going to approach things based on this information. So I like working with products that appeal to a big market. Like you’re in financial, that’s a big market.

Jason Stogsdill: 30:32

There’s, you know, you could probably go walk down the street and find someone who’s interested in making more money investing. Versus like, let’s say if there was some type of weird niche software you could walk all over your city and you know, you’re gonna have a hard time finding that person, but relationships dating, like I could go walk around my neighborhood and find people who need these products or accommodate ecommerce. And the reason I say I like the big, broad interest is because when you do get a funnel dialed in, you do get traffic working. You can keep going and going and going and going and going without burning that audience out. Just because of how big is the market..

Casey Stubbs: 31:19

You still have to go to other ad networks but the market as a whole is really large. You can just keep running different sources of traffic.

Jason Stogsdill: 31:33

Yeah and you know, it’s a good thing to focus on one ad network. When I’m working with a client, I’ll focus on one, get things proven on there. I’m doing a lot of native ads and a lot of email stuff. So when you get it working on one other ad networks, let’s say you get something running on Yahoo Gemini, which is a native ad network, then you can take that same kind of approach, what you discovered in that and go out to Revcontent. Tat’s another native ad network and people when they’re scrolling through, a lot of times what I’ll do is go to my, hit Google and it will suggest articles to me on my phone. So click on an article, scan through those and you’ll see in light gray sponsored content, so start noticing things like that and you can start to get a sense of what’s going on, what other ad networks are there but otherwise, if you’re not paying attention, it’s sort of just flies under the radar because it’s like, it’s meant to blend in as content,

Casey Stubbs: 32:40

Right. So again, back to the person that’s getting started. You only have a limited amount of budget. You might be new. You might not know what’s going on. I think a big danger is probably burning through your ad spend without making any sales. And the next thing you know, all your money’s gone. How do you get started without wasting your revenue, your budget?

Jason Stogsdill: 33:08

Yeah. That’s something that people kind of have to come to terms with a mentally is that, you know, ad spin gets burned all the time because part of my process in the beginning, like I know how to look for the right situations. Like I’m participating at…I haven’t done a lot of affiliate stuff, but I’m putting my own money into it. It’s not my clients money, it’s my money. So I’m using what I know to sort of determine like the odds of success. So I’m more of like a professional risk mitigator. So if I’m working with a client, let’s say I’m working with you, I am doing using all my research, competitor research, what I know about what’s going on in marketing and what I’m seeing working on other traffic networks to try to get you a win as quickly as possible.

Jason Stogsdill: 33:57

Because after a while if things are failing, then I’ve lost you as a client and so I’m looking to go for that, that lowest hanging fruit, but at the same time traffic is a lot about testing, so there will be lost money, but you have to look at it like you’re buying data, right? So, when I start running on an ad network, the first month is not as good as the second month and you’ll see, you know, other top media buyers out there. Maybe they’re not profitable in their first month but what you’re trying to do is test a lot of variables. And let’s say if you test, 10 different targeting options and three different creatives, what you’re looking for is, you’re not looking to put one out there, turn it on and hope it works.

Jason Stogsdill: 34:46

Right? So let’s say you’re running on Google display and you test out three different targeting options or 10 or however many. But let’s narrow it down and say three. And then off of those targeting options, you are testing three different creative, right? So here is one set of that audience you’re targeting, 1, 2, 3 ads, right? Here’s another targeting option, 1, 2, 3 adds. Another targeting option, 1, 2, 3 ads. So you’re systematically testing this out because out of this whole little ad Matrix is what I call it. Maybe this combination of this one audience and this creative is killing it. It’s crushing it, right? And all these others were just losers. They were just complete losers. And let’s say you burn through, thousand dollars, $2,000 to discover that. Now you’ve discovered that, then when you come back next month, the next step is to put all of your money on the winners,

Casey Stubbs: 35:57

So you go into it with a head start because the next month, because you have data on what is working and what’s not. So it is a trial and error process. I liked how you described that. That’s pretty good.

Jason Stogsdill: 36:11

Yeah and you can systematically do it, but people just getting started. What kind of messes them up or they get discouraged as they come up with an ad. They come up with some targeting options and they expect it to work. Like, I may have a better desk than them, but even I can’t do that, you know. So, when I’m working with a new client, I’m testing. And then if you’ve made that discovery, that one ad that’s hitting your goal that is very valuable. So then you can go in and like, let’s say your target CPA that we talked about are really cost per acquisition is $50. Let’s say on these, all these other ad sets sets they had spent $150 and nobody converted. They didn’t get one customer kill that ad set off.

Jason Stogsdill: 37:04

It’s not gonna work and you know, you can go buy like three times CPA. So if your CPA is 50 bucks and you’ve spent 150 is probably not gonna work out on that ad set. But let’s say this one winter we found you are getting customers at $30, right? You’re not even breaking even. You’re actually making a little money. So you know, instead of all the wasted ad spend, you want to double down on that one and then you know, all the time you can be testing against your control. So this I think, gives people more of a systematic way to do it versus like let’s go to Vegas and just spend the wheel, you know, it’s a…

Casey Stubbs: 37:46

Which is what a lot of people do with ad spend. It’s literally just point and shoot.

Jason Stogsdill: 37:51

Yeah, yeah. So, and then, maybe they spend a lot of money and they didn’t even really get the data they needed because they didn’t test properly so they could burn through. You can burn through $10,000. But what if it was all in that underperforming ad in the wrong ad set. And there’s really no way to fully know until you test them. You’re always like just trying to discover winners and then scale those as big as they can go.

Casey Stubbs: 38:22

Excellent. Well, this has been a really great discussion. I think some of the big takeaways are really focused on knowing what your CPA is going to be and trying to hit that number so that you’re focused on building your customers. Another big takeaway is that you can monetize in several different ways if you’re starting out into the marketing business, you can use create an email list to create customers, but also generate revenue by sending traffic to someone or also affiliate. And then this last big thing that I thought was really good was testing your ads and then choosing your winners and always being specific with your marketing so that you’re not, you’re wasting as little as possible so that was some really good tips for people that were just starting out. Gives them a little bit of framework. There’s a lot here. It’s not a simple topic, but I think we’ve been able to give some people some good starting points.

Jason Stogsdill: 39:26

Yeah. You know, it’s just, it is what it is. I wish it were easier, but then I guess if it was, everyone would be rich, but we’ve bought some, you know, you’ve got your own products and we’ve bought email traffic off of you. I mean, we’re buying traffic for my client from you right now. So you are our living proof of this stuff works.
Casey Stubbs: 39:51 Well, I’ve decide revenue. I’ve actually got multiple sources of revenue, right? So, I’m doing the product thing, running ad campaigns for that, but then I’m also doing the traffic thing and affiliate. I mean I’ve got a whole bunch of different monetization streams which I do recommend, but it just takes time to develop them, start with one thing and then start working on the other stuff.

Jason Stogsdill: 40:18

Yeah. Like for you, it’s kind of like, you don’t know always how your products are going to work out or like when you first started, like, exactly what you were going to do to monetize, but having these multiple methods, like I said, where we bought email traffic for and buying email traffic, from you for clients and you know, it’s just one of many ways, but its just gives you more safety nets, right? Because, that’s what we want more ways to win and then your odds go up if you’ve got two ways to win that’s better than one. So, and always searching for what’s maybe a better method. But yeah man, this is real world stuff that I’m doing every day and you’re doing as well.

Casey Stubbs: 41:08

Right? Well, Jason, thanks a lot. Can you give our listeners a way to get ahold of you to find out what you’re doing, what’s the best way to connect with you? I’m going to link below the show, I’m going to give everybody some links to get access to you.

Jason Stogsdill: 41:26

Okay. Yeah. This kind of weird thing I’m doing. That’s maybe not typical or Polish on social medias I’m just using my personal Facebook a lot so people can just look me up on Facebook. I know that sounds kind of, I don’t know, almost too rudimentary.

Casey Stubbs: 41:41

Llike a normal person. That’s like something I personally do.

Jason Stogsdill: 41:44

Yeah. Yeah. I’m not doing a big guru thing but if people have questions they can feel free to ask me jumping on comments and get some discussions going with some pretty advanced people that I don’t know the answers they probably do. And the thing about Facebook is they don’t give the organic reach to like your business profile. So I just like to connect with people one on one, so maybe just add me and shoot me a messenger message and will just connect on there.

Casey Stubbs: 42:18

Yeah. So whether you’re listening to this, whether you’re an advanced, intermediate or beginner, this is a huge opportunity to connect with somebody that really knows what they’re doing. So I’m always trying to give people action steps. One action step is go find Jason on Facebook and add him as a friend and then just pay attention to what he’s doing. And if you have questions you can ask them. Like, that’s huge for people that are just getting started out. That’s really huge.

Jason Stogsdill: 42:45

Yeah and if I don’t have an answer, I’ve kinda built up a network of people, because sometimes it may be what you need to focus on is your funnel, copyrighting, things like that or you may be looking for the right course and I’m just, kinda like a traffic guy in the sense that I’m directing traffic like, you know, go talk to this person. He knows this. Iit’s really all about connections, you know, and just knowing the right people to talk to. Like I met you in a group and that relationship’s been very valuable. So, yeah, I think it’s a good way to use social media.

Casey Stubbs: 43:23

Yeah, you got to get connected with the right people if you’re going to grow. That’s the truth.

Jason Stogsdill: 43:27

For sure. for sure.

Casey Stubbs: 43:29

Okay. Well I’ve actually done something that I’ve never done before and I’ve gone way past my time and I think it was because we needed a little more time on this topic because it’s really a deep one. I might have to have you come back on next level, but thanks a lot for being on the show today.

Jason Stogsdill: 43:48

Alright. Thank you Casey.

Outro: 44:03

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